Show Notes:

In episode 55, I interviewed Chrissy Romano Arrabito (@theconnectededu), author of the new book “Quiet Kids Count.” Chrissy is an elementary school teacher from New Jersey who is an expert on supporting introverted students. We discussed how educators can recognize, support, and encourage introverted students.

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About Chrissy Romano Arrabito

Chrissy Romano Arrabito is a career teacher and proud of it! She is currently an elementary teacher at Nellie K. Parker Elementary School in Hackensack, New Jersey and has over 26 years of experience as an elementary and middle school teacher.

She graduated from Douglass College, Rutgers University where she studied Sociology and Psychology. She went on to complete the Teacher Certification program and earned a Masters Degree in Counseling from William Paterson University.

Chrissy is dedicated to teaching the whole child, stimulating and supporting innovation in classrooms, and strives to provide authentic learning experiences for her students. Her true passion lies in nurturing the quiet kids, those that tend to fall through the cracks, those that truly need a champion to support and advocate for them.

Connect with Chrissy:

Chrissy’s Website: theconnectededucator.com/

Chrissy’s Twitter: @TheConnectedEdu

Chrissy’s New Book:

Our Conversation

Dan Kreiness
I’m very excited to bring on another amazing guest in this episode. Chrissy Romano published, now, a book on a topic that I find very fascinating and I think that a lot of teachers and educators will also, So, Chrissy, welcome and if you could please introduce yourself and let us know who you are, where you are and what you do.

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Sure. So I am Chrissy Romano Arrabito. I am a second grade teacher in Hackensack, New Jersey and I live in Bergen County, New Jersey. I’ve been teaching for this is now my 27th year, so I’ve been around the block a bit. I definitely embrace teaching the whole child. I have a special passion and what’s the word… affinity for the quiet kids, and I do have a book that was just released in early October Quiet Kids Count and I’m super excited to be here and I must mention that I am an introvert, I am the daughter of an introvert, the sister of an introvert, and I parent an introverted child. So I have lots of experience with being around introverts.

Dan Kreiness
Yeah. And I’m glad that you can open up like that and be honest about it and of course, write a book on it. I find the topic fascinating to be honest with you, because now you’ve been in education 27 years, you just said. I’m in your 14. And so I think that both of us have been around quite a while and long enough certainly to tell that kids act different ways and learn in different ways. And, you know, there’s been all this research and research to prove the research wrong about like learning styles, but we know how and why we need to differentiate for students and I think this is one of the many ways in which we need to recognize that students are different from one another. I mean, I will tell you that I have two kids at home of my own. One is just nine. He just turned nine. And the other is five. And when they’re home, they’re off the wall and they’re wild and they’re loud. But sometimes you get them in situations and they really clam up. And I don’t know for sure whether that is introvertedness or not, maybe you can kind of enlighten me. And I know this, this could be a silly question. I’m not even sure. But are there reasons why people or kids in this case are introverted? Is it just built into someone’s personality? Like, what would you say about that?

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
So introversion is most definitely built into our personality. We’re hardwired this way. And it’s really a matter of science, believe it or not. So there’s dopamine, which is a chemical that’s released in our brain, and it provides motivation for people to seek external rewards. So when this dopamine floods the brain, both introverts and extroverts become more stimulated and alert to their surroundings. So there’s really no difference there between introverts and extroverts. But both introverts and extroverts have the same amount of dopamine in their brain. The real difference is that introverts become more easily stimulated and overwhelmed, and our internal batteries kind of tend to drain quicker than that of an extrovert. So kind of think of it this way, if you’re going to a party or in a large group, or playing on a playground full of kids, extroverts will become more energized and want to stay and play forever. Introverts, on the other hand, they can only handle so much. After an hour of to at a party, we need to leave. On a playground full of kids running around and screaming, or after a morning of classes with lots of group work and interaction with others, introverts are exhausted, drained, and they really are looking for quiet to restore their energy. And out of all the personality traits that people have studied in major research, introversion and extraversion are both strongly connected to genetics and hereditary. Like I mentioned before, on the child of an introvert my brother’s an introvert, my son is an introvert. But environmental factors can also affect this.

Dan Kreiness
Is that like trauma or something? What was that?

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Oh no, not necessarily. So for example, like many introverts, we do this thing we call it like the mask of an extrovert. And we do this in order to better fit in, you know, so we can easily pass for an extrovert at work or in social situations. So most people when they meet me, I’m a friendly person. You know, if I’m comfortable, I can be talkative. And for the most part, people think I’m an extrovert until they really start to get to know me, and we talk a little bit and then they realize, oh, wow, like that whole other side to her. And it’s exhausting. And it feels like work, but to be socially accepted, or to get ahead at work or be successful in a classroom, many introverts have to put on an act to kind of fit this extrovert ideal that society holds in high regard. Hopefully, does that kind of makes sense?

Dan Kreiness
Yeah, no, I again, I think it’s fascinating. And as you were speaking, kind of a follow up question that popped into my my mind just quickly is like, Is there some gray area in between introverted and extroverted?

Dan Kreiness
You know, because I find myself, like you were saying a little bit, in situations where if I’m comfortable with people, I’ll open up but if it’s new people or a new situation or new environment, I kind of clam up and I’m definitely much more withdrawn.

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Yeah

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Right. So yeah, there there is, you know, a label like ambivert, which is what you kind of fall like in the middle of that spectrum. But when people, you know, take those personality tests and look at Myers Briggs, you kind of fall usually toward one extreme or the other or definitely more towards one side or the other. I think the situationalness of things is what puts people in that ambivert, like in the middle, like you were just saying, if you’re comfortable, and you’re with, you know, with your people and you’re comfortable in a situation or, you know, you’re going to open up more. But the idea of introversion and extraversion really, if you think of, if you try to equate it to like a cell phone battery, you know, when you use it a lot, and you’re on all different sorts of apps or streaming, you’re listening or watching videos, and there’s a lot of interaction, your battery drains very quickly.

Dan Kreiness
I love that. I live I really like that analogy. And you should totally write a book… No, just kidding… No, yeah, that doesn’t make sense. I’m really… that that was a very, very good way of of explaining it that that that made sense to me. And hopefully my listeners as well. So here’s another perhaps silly question. And I’m wondering, like, we talked about how there’s perhaps a bit of a gray area between introvert and extrovert. Are there ways in which people present introvertedness differently? Like other than just being quiet and withdrawn? Can? I don’t know. Is that Is that a thing?

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Yeah. So it’s a thing and it’s actually there’s a lot of misconceptions and misperception about introverts. So we can definitely appear to be quiet and withdrawn. But that’s usually in situations when we’re not fully comfortable which just kind of talked about that. I mean, I can talk a blue streak or do interviews like this, but you put me in a room full of strangers, or a group of people that have nothing in common with and you will not hear a peep out of me. I will just sit back, observe, listen, and pretty much try to devise a way out of the situation.

Dan Kreiness
So I know this is gonna seem like I just I’m answering my own question a little bit, but I think one of the things you just said I hadn’t really thought about that before where typically, it seems like introvertedness presents obviously as someone just being really quiet and withdrawn. But…

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Yeah

Dan Kreiness
…like you were just saying. And I want to use actually as an example, you and I met just once I believe in person and it was a back at ASCD earlier this year. And you know, we’ve spoken I guess on Voxer and we’ve been connected for a while but you seemed pretty, like you said friendly and personable and and I wouldn’t necessarily have taken you for shy, quiet, withdrawn. But something else that you just said too where it’s like very situational. And also, again back to that analogy about the cell phone thing, I think that to me makes more sense when it when I asked about how it presents maybe differently than just being quiet and withdrawn, that’s probably it right? Like someone who gets overwhelmed or overstimulated so quickly that they then need to like back out of that situation?

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Right right. And and because of that, like exactly what you just said, our quietness sometimes is perceived as rudeness. Like our ability to be really keen observers can be seen as being judgmental or critical of others.

Dan Kreiness
I’ve totally had that happen to me.

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
And most people also think that all introverts are shy and don’t get me wrong, you know, many are, but it’s really more situational like we kind of talked about already. But I think the biggest misconception and the one that concerns me the most as an introvert and as an educator is that society seems to feel that introverts are broken and need to be fixed. So, like I am here to say there is nothing wrong with us, we just be to our own drum and we react to stimuli in a different way. And our batteries just kind of get drained a little quicker. And, you know, in order for us to reboot and restore, we really like solitude and quiet, whereas the extrovert in order to reboot and restore likes to be in energized situations. Being around people, doing things, go go go gives them more energy, whereas for us, it depletes that. Does that make sense?

Dan Kreiness
Yeah, no that does, it really does. And i think it does because I, and I’m guessing so many of my listeners as well, can sort of relate in and see and think back to several situations where I feel like I my introvertedness myself even has come out. And, I don’t know, it’s funny because now I’m thinking about it and sometimes, I think I probably seem a lot more outgoing and extroverted than I really am too. And I could totally, like, name so many situations that I’ve been in, like you’re saying, that were overwhelming for me that I did need to like escape and find solace and solitude afterwards because it was just too much. And kind of on that point too and as you were just saying, Let’s, let’s put a more educational spin on it. Now I got the background, I think I’m getting really the differences here. And what introverted, this really is. Let’s talk about kids in school. All right, and I’m thinking from a social emotional lens with social emotional learning gaining so much traction in schools. I mean, I did a whole mini series on it, even on this show back in the springtime. I’m wondering, so how does introvertedness affect kids, socially speaking? And then I guess also on the flip side, how does it affect them academically?

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
So, socially, I’ve seen quite a kid struggle just to fit in with social norms that are set by our society. I see it with my son, the kids I’ve taught over the years and even myself, personal experiences. And introverts tend to have a few close friends instead of being like a social butterfly. You know, they may take a pass on social interactions because they prefer to be alone and they need that quiet time to reboot. And I don’t want people to think that introverts are social hermits, or that we don’t like to be around people, and we only want to stay home and read a book and hang out with their cat. Even though that sounds like me on a weekend after a rough week, but quite kids do have friends. They tend to be extremely loyal as well. And if you’re lucky enough to be let into the inner circle of an introvert, you are most likely guaranteed to have a friend. But academics pose other concerns. Since there’s so many misconceptions about introverts, many teachers I have found don’t fully understand the kids that are sitting before them. They build lessons around group work more and more. Very little time is built into the day for quiet time or reflection. Hallways tend to be loud and crowded. Kids are forced to go to recess and don’t have quieter options, especially in New Jersey, a new law was put into place where you cannot keep kids from recess at the elementary level. So, I really struggled with this because I’ve had students over the years beg and plead and ask, I don’t want to go on. I cannot eat in that loud cafeteria. Can I just sit in your room? When I was a middle school teacher, Can I just sit with my headphones and read? Can I just sit and draw? Can I just sit and do a puzzle? Can I just sit with my one friend and have a conversation? With my younger students, they wanted to eat and play Lego. They wanted to, you know, have their lunch and then, you know, get on the iPad or, you know, dabble in some online books or just read in the library or just sit and talk with me. And now we have this, you know, kind of dilemma like, what do we do with those kids? Like we’ve been explicitly told in schools, elementary schools across New Jersey, you can’t hold them in anymore. So you know, we’re looking for… and this was brand new for us in September, so we’re looking at creative ways to… you know, and I understand that our governor wants to go out and be active and run and play, but not all kids need that. So that’s a struggle. And, you know, class participation is still graded on report cards. That’s a whole nother thing…

Dan Kreiness
Oh my god, yeah I can’t stand that

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
That’s a whole nother conversation, engagement versus participation. So Dan, we could talk forever on that topic alone. Maybe we could save that for another episode.

Unknown Speaker
that. Yeah,

Dan Kreiness
Yeah, no, you’re right. Absolutely. And yeah, you know, you’re saying that and I’m thinking about teachers who I’ve known and I do know, even currently, that walk around the room with a clipboard marking down, you know, who’s participating and how many times they’re speaking and all that

Dan Kreiness
Ok. I definitely can’t wait to read that. So, I’m actually thinking about a story that of a student who I had just last school year. So I was put back in the classroom for a few months before I left the school. And I actually had two students who were twin sisters, and they weren’t in class together, but they were in my homeroom and my advisory class together, and neither of them really opened up to anyone else, including students or teachers, except for each other. And I’m going to be honest, and you just said it too. Like I don’t know that I as an educator probably understood enough about the introvertedness or really did as much as I could. The funny part about the story is that I left the school in December to take an administrative position for a while last year but I came back once to visit. So I left in December, I think I came back it was spring break, so maybe March or April, and I’m telling you that one of these two twins talked my ear off for like 10 minutes about a cat that she had gotten, like she, she wouldn’t shut up. And it was amazing to me. But I did sort of feel bad at the same time because I’m like, man, I probably could have done more to, I don’t know, help open her up or help just make her feel more comfortable talking with me and sharing things with me. I don’t know, I guess I I did feel a little guilty. But it was great that she was opening up so much. Here’s my question, though, in that situation, and when teachers are in those situations like that, they’re faced with these students who seem very shut off from the world around them, maybe, like what can teachers do to ensure that introverted students are successful? And again, going back socially or academically, what can we do as teachers?

Dan Kreiness
Yeah. I have a whole chapter… there is a whole chapter in my book about that.

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
So first teachers need to read my book

Dan Kreiness
There you go.

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
They do. They need to read my book and invite me in to talk to their staff. But seriously, it really does start with becoming, you know, more informed, accepting kids for who they are, not focusing on trying to fix them or forcing them to be something there aren’t. You know, there’s a lot to say for you know, building relationships with kids and I have… again, I write extensively on lots of ideas to really truly get to know the classroom. Use those first weeks of school to find out, you know, who they are as people outside of the academics. I mean, yeah that stuff’s important reading, writing, arithmetic, all of that, but like, you know, find out what they like to do outside of school. Strike up conversation. You know, one thing like I said, I used to do and new law in New Jersey here now, but I used to do a lunch bunch. So you know, you can kind of pinpoint these quiet kids and invite them, you know, to come for lunch, just sit talk, like I would eat with them just for like 10 minutes or so. And then they have the rest of the periods to do what they wanted. Just to kind of get to know them and for them to get to know me, you know, outside of me just being their teacher in the classroom. You know that, you know, friends call me the lizard lady because I love reptiles and I you know, I’ve always had cats, like I adore them. I spend my summers at the beach and I love to read and like I’m a self-professed nerd and I’m cool with that, I’m a techie teacher and… so I share things about me, they share things about them, you know, you start to build rapport and relationships and a sense of community, and then you can build out upon that, your larger classroom, build upon their strengths. You know, I also talk in my book a lot about how the introverts are really the leaders of the world and they put this extroverted mask on to be a certain way in order to you know, rise to the top and be a CEO or be elected as a president. You know, Barack Obama, self-professed introvert. You know, many many successful people you know, have this quiet certain strength and not as a weakness, to structure our lessons differently building quiet time to build in independent work, you know, give options for flexible seating. Do you want to sit here? Are you more comfortable there? Do you want to work with a partner or prefer to work alone? Be mindful when you’re grouping kids, you know, think about your experience throughout your school career from young all the way through graduate school. There’s always the slacker. There’s always the talker who talks and talks and talks but never adds any substance. There’s always the one that does all the work and doesn’t say much. Those dynamics don’t change. I mean, I see it now even as a teacher on a new team of teachers… because you and I briefly talked before about how I moved from upper elementary to primary again. And those dynamics don’t change. People are people. We as educators need be mindful when we’re putting those groups… Think about the middle school in high school student that goes from class after class after class, period after period when that bell rings, to, you know, constant interaction, constant group work, having to fight to be heard in a classroom of kids that are ooh ooh oohing. One of the cues that was in my classroom is nobody raises their hand. When they’re ready to share or respond, they either give a thumbs up… my middle schoolers used to give a thumbs up, my little ones now, they need to put their hand on their shoulder, or their hand on their head. That’s how we know we’re ready. And we quietly wait for the majority… and those ooh and ahs learn very, very quickly. We need to make space for everyone And hopefully those are some hints and tips, you know, to get people at least thinking and moving in the right direction.

Dan Kreiness
Yeah, I think that’s great. I think that’s really, really sound advice and easy. You know, it shouldn’t be, in my opinion very hard for teachers to implement some of those changes and make introverts feel more comfortable. And like I said before, just kind of add another layer of differentiating in the classroom for students who not only learn differently, but just act differently…

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Yeah, absolutely.

Dan Kreiness
…and feel differently and in different situations. Listen, it’s great stuff. I’m really, really glad that I got you on here talking about this. And of course, with the book that has just released, please, as we wrap up, let people know where they can find the book and how they can connect with you and potentially get some more great advice from you, or even bring you into to talk about this stuff.

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Yeah, so the book is being… I know we’re actually recording this a little bit before the book is actually coming out. So, the book is being published by Times 10 publications. It’s going to be available at Barnes and Noble and Amazon. You can connect with me on Twitter at @theconnectededu. I’m also on Voxer by the same name, and Chrissy Romano Arrabito is my name and you can find me on Facebook. I actually do prefer to interact on Facebook, I find it a little bit more personal. Easier to have deeper conversation than Twitter, but but I am available on social media, introverts love social media. And Dan, you and I have talked a lot on Voxer over the past few years also.

Dan Kreiness
That’s true, yeah.

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
So, you know, I’m in a couple of groups there as well. And I’m looking to hopefully when the book gets out and… I’m Fingers crossed, people embrace it… I would love to start a Voxer group around this idea of quiet kids counting in the classroom, help people become more informed, ask questions, share stories, try out some of the strategies and ideas in the book, and hopefully hear about how things are going. So I’m out there, I’m available. I’m around.

Dan Kreiness
Great. And again, thank you you for your time. Congratulations on getting the book out. And good luck with everything that you will have after the book releases and all the success that you’re going to find with it. I really appreciate you coming on and, like I said, I think this is a very, very fascinating topic and a really important topic. So I appreciate you sharing all of the expertise that you’ve shared.

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Well, Dan, thank you so much for having me. And I have to say I’ve done quite a handful of interviews and you are so easy to talk to, which makes it so much easier for me,

Dan Kreiness
Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Unknown Speaker
Um,

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
But yeah, I really appreciate you having me and, you know, fingers are crossed. I hope that people embrace the book and take the time to learn a little bit more about the quiet kids in your classroom. Hopefully some tips and things in there helpful for people.

Dan Kreiness
Excellent. And I would be remiss if I did not mention to my listeners that you can find the link to not only Chrissy’s social media, but also the book, the Amazon book link will be in the show notes for this episode. Of course. You can find that at leaderoflearning.com. Chrissy, thank you so much.

Chrissy Romano Arrabito
Thank you. Thanks for having me.