Show Notes:
In episode 51, I interviewed Sabba Quidwai (@AskMsQ), a doctoral candidate in USC’s Global Executive Doctor of Education program. Sabba is a former social sciences teacher and Director of Innovation at USC, a speaker, and a social influencer. In the episode, we discussed how leadership and social influence have converged and emerged as growing skills for the next generation.
Subscribe to the podcast!
About Sabba Quidwai
I want to live in a world driven by empathy. My mission is to help empower people to become creative problem solvers who can shape their destiny with design thinking. As a doctoral student in the Global Executive EdD program at the University of Southern California, my research focus is on how design thinking can be used in K12 to prepare for The Second Machine Age.
As a keynote speaker, Sabba often talks about whether we are creating students who will apply for jobs or students who will create their own. When I say “create their own” it does not necessarily mean that they must become an entrepreneur. These students who will create their own jobs are those who are creative problem solvers. Those who are able to build professional learning networks and seek out opportunities, companies, and people who they are interested in working with. In an era where employers and admissions officers are turning to Google to search applicants, it is essential to help students put their best foot forward online and offline.
I’ve always been passionate about reimagining learning to best prepare today’s students for their future. While teaching at Fairmont Private Schools in 2010, I led our 1:1 technology-enhanced curriculum initiative. We often see children or young people using technology and believe that they know how to maximize its use. However, it wasn’t until my sister began as a graduate student at KeckUSC that I realized the need for helping students leverage technology in professional and educational settings was monumental. These students had grown up in one world, yet the one they were entering was quite different.
As Director of Innovative Learning at the Keck School of Medicine of the University of Southern California (Family Medicine Department), I worked with faculty and students. I’m working with faculty to redefine what learning looks like when teaching in a world that extends beyond the four walls of your classroom. Moreover, I’m also working with students to use digital tools to work smarter not harder and how to build digital portfolios and leverage social media to pursue their passion.
When not talking about teaching and learning you can find me flying my Mavic Pro drone, exploring coffee shops, interviewing people and traveling across the globe, all of which I capture in my daily stories on Instagram and Snapchat @AskMsQ.
Follow Sabba Quidwai on Twitter
Sabba’s “AskMsQ” Website:
Our Conversation
Dan Kreiness
Very exciting guest on this episode and in all honesty, and I’ve told her this already so I’m not really embarrassed to say, it’s someone that I’ve been pursuing for quite a while to be a guest on the show, Sabba Quidwai and and first I’ll have you introduce yourself and then I’ll kind of go back and give a little bit of a recap as to how I became familiar with you. But who are you? Where are you? What do you do?
Sabba Quidwai
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be chatting with you today. And so I’m Sabba and I am currently a doctoral student at the University of Southern California, looking at global education systems. So currently working on my doctorate. I’m a former social science teacher, and I’m currently entrenched in school.
Dan Kreiness
I hear that and we absolutely have that in common and we’ll get there in a few minutes. Let me take you back a few years at this point. So, a few years ago, when all the kids were using starting to use Snapchat, some of us educators were like, you know, is this one of those things that only students can do? And they’re going to, like, yell at us for trying it out? Or is this something that maybe educators can, can get around and perhaps even use, you know, to our advantage educationally speaking? So I was in what you might call like a pilot group of educators who were trying Snapchat. And, of course, like much of the other social media out there. We were all kind of wondering, okay, is there anyone who is an educator and is already using Snapchat, educationally speaking, and doing a good job of it? And we shared some names and some accounts and everyone said, you’ve got to follow this @ MsQ account and I was like, all right, I’ll give it a shot. And since then, I didn’t really keep Snapchat for all that long but that’s what kind of turned me on to you and the content that you share. And I love it, because it’s a lot about education. But it’s also I mean, you share everything from your travels to your doctoral experience, and food and fashion, like everything. I love it. So I guess what I’m wondering is, how did you even get get started on that in the first place?
Sabba Quidwai
You know, I think it was my younger sisters. And it’s one of those things, you know, as we see more and more communication platforms come about, people have different preferences. And so you know, a lot of times I would text them or call them and they wouldn’t return the text or the call. But if I got on Snapchat, and I snapped them, I would almost get an instantaneous response. And so I started playing with the platform, I started kind of experimenting with it. And after doing a couple of them, mostly with family, I realized I just had a passion for video. I realized that I was actually a huge fan and I still am a huge fan of Twitter. But one of the big differences that I started to notice was that whereas on Twitter and now you can do video on Twitter too, but back then it was really just an image or a couple of images. Snapchat really allowed you to kind of capture things in the moment and show people what was happening live. And so if I was using a new tool, if I was trying a new lesson idea, sometimes people would watch it and be like, oh, my God, I could totally do that too. And that experience, the idea that I could give somebody that feeling the idea that somebody could watch a video and gain that confidence to try something new, to me was absolutely transformational.
Dan Kreiness
In terms of your content sharing and your social media presence. I know that one of the things that among the many maybe that you and I have in common is sort of keeping a big picture on what’s happening in leadership and, and kind of, you know how its evolving, I guess. So I was wondering, what are you interested in currently about leadership? What are you noticing? What are the trends that you’re seeing?
Sabba Quidwai
Oh, gosh, it’s so there’s so many things. But I think one of the most exciting things today for so many people is the idea that really, the idea of leadership has become so democratized, I think, you know, it used to be so encapsulated were only a few people could climb the ranks, and only a few people would get noticed, and only a few people could have access to certain opportunities. But one of the things that I think social media has really allowed for is for everybody’s voices to be heard. And so I think if you have a talent and you have something exciting to share, and and you know, exciting might be the wrong word, because what’s not exciting to you might be exciting to somebody else. But I think if you have any kind of value to share, and I really believe that everyone does, because we all have unique voices. We all have unique experiences. And I think if you can use those platforms today in a meaningful way, whether it’s through voice, whether it’s through video, whether it’s through text, you really have an operation Unity to influence. And so one of the things that I one of the trends I’m incredibly fascinated by right now, and I’m kind of looking into is the World Economic Forum recently published an updated version of the future of jobs report. And in that report, they often highlight trending skills. And for the first time, one of the trending skills they kind of noted for 2022 was leadership and social influence. And I just found it really fascinating that they grouped the two together. And I think it’s really important for you know, not just people in formal leadership positions, but really everyone to begin thinking about the role they can play in solving the challenges that exist within their industries.
Dan Kreiness
Yeah, I agree. And actually, by the time this episode comes out, it’ll be a few weeks, but recently, Eric Sheninger just gave the keynote address at my at my district convocation, and he actually brought up this report that you should govern. So I think it’s really timely. And I’m glad you brought it up. And I agree that it doesn’t take positions or titles. You know, I’ve been doing this show going on three seasons now. And I keep saying, no matter who you are and where you are, you can be a leader of learning. It doesn’t matter what title you have, or what role you play in your school or your district or wherever you’re at in education. And I think you’re right, that some educators and other leaders have become leaders, not just because of the work that they’re doing in their buildings, but how they’re influencing and how they’re impacting other educators across the country across the world. And it is really exciting. So, you know, to be, I guess, to some degree, a part of that as a podcaster. You know, it makes me feel like I’m giving back to the educational community. And I guess leading
Sabba Quidwai
You know, for lack of better term in terms of trying to get teachers to continue to develop themselves through this different kind of medium. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, it’s interesting because it’s not only an exciting time, but I think it’s also a very necessary time for us to step up and kind of do this, you know, I, my last last quarter in classes, we read a book called it’s the mission, not the mandate, unlike so many books, you know, it opens kind of by talking about Simon cynic and his book start with why and how when we look at policy change, and we look at really any kind of initiative it is we want to be in to implement, it’s important to understand RY, and I think, you know, for one person to kind of carry that burden of articulating the why of sharing the why of constantly, you know, building momentum around it is incredibly challenging. And, you know, one of the things I’ve kind of just kind of occurred to me that start with why when you publish that it’s been a decade and you think now about the social platforms that we have The opportunity for an organization or really, for any group, to be able to get everybody to articulate and share and show examples of the why can really resonate with a much, much larger audience. And so when we’re thinking about the changes that we’re trying to bring within our various organizations or industries, I think the more voices you can be, you can get on board to share that vision with their audiences and their unique voices, the more it’s going to resonate with people.
Dan Kreiness
Interesting point that you just brought up about the why. Here’s what I’m wondering. A lot of times I get asked things like, Why do you do your podcast? Why are have you decided to go back and torture yourself by becoming a doctoral student and writing this crazy long dissertation that you’re writing? Like? I you know, for me, well, first of all, the podcast for me is a way to share content like we’ve already talked about, but not have to write too much because let’s face it, I’m already writing so much in my degree program. But for me, it’s it’s just about being a lifelong learner. And I know that may sound cheesy, but I just feel like it’s important to reach that highest level of education to keep pushing myself I so I’m in a new district this year and I introduced myself the other day to the staff members that I’ll be supporting in the ELA department by saying, I am a total educational geek. Like when I’m not actually working at school, I’m still going on social media listening to podcasts, like I’m all the time it’s it’s just that’s what I’m interested in. So that’s my why I just want to keep learning. What about you?
Sabba Quidwai
Oh, wow. Um, I think my Why is really this idea about cultures of innovation begin with a culture of empathy. And I think empathy really drives a lot of the work I do both personally and professionally. So you know, it’s interesting, you talk about this idea of lifelong learning, and I think it’s absolutely essential and I think it’s great. That you really kind of embrace these mediums and you’re experimenting with different mediums to be able to see what works for you. Because I’ll tell you another really big thing that happened to me from engaging on Snapchat. And now mostly, I feel like a lot of us have really moved over to Instagram stories in terms of professionally sharing. But one of the things that I really began to realize was it was almost like a video diary. Like more than sharing with others, I was learning so much. And I was like, wow, like, I can’t, I would look back on the video at the end of the day, or, you know, sometimes even go back a week or month later. And I’d be like, Oh my god, I can’t even believe that happened. Like, I don’t remember that. Like, oh my god, like, That’s so cool. Or I would find something really interesting that had happened in the day. And it would just really kind of helped me sometimes connect the dots or just, you know, we go through our days and we’re just so busy, busy, busy, to have that sort of video diary. Their daily really allowed me to kind of pause and just be like, wow, like, I can’t believe that that happened today or you know, whatever it was that I was looking at. And then the second part of that is really, you know that all these platforms offer people so much choice with the kind of voice they can have you know if you’re comfortable podcasting great if you’re comfortable doing video great like there’s just so much choice available to you but going back to my why one of my driving motivations for going back to school was I spent a lot of time working with schools and organizations talking about what innovation and education should look like. And I just started visit become increasingly curious about what what would it be like for me as a student to go back and it really has just given me such a different lens with which I’m starting new view the work we do.
Dan Kreiness
You know, I think one of the things that links our doctoral experiences and perhaps even our our dissertation or research topics, is that idea of innovation. And to be honest with you early on in my in my studies, as I was starting to sort of form my ideas around the topic and starting to really get things down on paper, I felt like there was some pushback there by professors and maybe even my dissertation committee really early on, and they were wondering about that word innovation, like how do you define that I really thought that they were going to give me a hard time about it, I guess. Now looking back, it hasn’t been so bad. But when I when I threw out there the idea of I want to study how leadership effect impacts innovative classroom instructional practices. I think everyone at first was like, Whoa, what is this innovation? Like, you’re gonna have to define that? And what do you mean? And I sorry, here’s what I’m getting at what is innovation? Then? What do you think?
Sabba Quidwai
I mean, I, you know, when it comes to education, when it comes to classroom practices, what do you think? You know, I would say, I learned this at USC, because when I was, so I was director of innovative learning at USC for about three years. And it was a medical school. And it was, you know, I’m a history social science teacher. So it was completely a different environment. And so one of the things I really came to learn in that through that experience was the idea that cultures of innovation begin with a culture of empathy. At the end of the day. For me, innovation is really about being able to understand the needs of other people, the challenges that exist, but also the things that get people excited. And I think if you can begin there and you can get others to begin thinking about those questions, you know, what questions is it that you really want to be asking? If you can kind of have people play in the problem space, I think that’s where we get products, services, whatever it might be, that help make people’s lives better. And I say, correct me if I’m wrong, a part of that is your interest. And again, I know this because I’ve been following you for a while. And you know, we’ve talked a little bit on the side about our doctoral experiences, but I know that you have an interest in and a passion for design thinking, well, how does that fit in? I absolutely do. And, you know, I always I cannot remember the exact moment that I came across the model. But in 2016, and this coincided with my time at USC, I watched a talk from the World Economic Forum at Davos that and they post all their live sessions as videos on YouTube. And so one of the talks was called technology driven, human centered. And there was one particular all the panelists were amazing, but there was one particular panelist his name was Eric Olson and he and another Person Andrew McAfee had written a book called The second Machine Age. And I just thought, like, Wow, what a title technology driven, human centered, and I fell in love. And I started diving deep. And I started looking at that. But one of the things that really resonated with me in listening to Eric on the panel was his optimism. Yes, there’s a lot of change. Yes, there’s a lot happening in the world. But this is a good thing. And there’s a lot of opportunity, if we can just embrace it. And so I read the book, the second Machine Age, and I really, really, really enjoyed it, mostly because it really laid out sort of the changes that are taking place, what we can start with what we should expect with machine learning what its capabilities are. But more than that, a roadmap for the future. And it was a very optimistic roadmap. And I think that really pushed me towards learning about, okay, well, how might we actually be able to integrate these ideas into education, and at that time, I was teaching a course at USC, which is around design thinking and healthcare. And so I began looking I was looking for models. I was looking for Things to kind of, you know, use as a framework for the students. And I came across, you know, Stanford’s design thinking model. And then so I love Stanford’s design thinking model. And then I love the idea that it’s not just a skill set, but it’s also a mindset. And so I do actually have these like seven mindsets of a designer. And I think it just really gives people a tangible way to develop skills to actually engage in this work, but also helps them develop a mindset, because you really need both hand in hand, to be able to tackle the challenges and embrace the opportunities. And I think a lot of times we say things like, learn from failure, or it’s okay to take a risk or, you know, be optimistic or you know, we talk a lot about making an iterating and we talk a lot about things, but if somebody actually needs to know, okay, but how am I going to get there, right, because a lot of times, it’s not just about learning. Sometimes you have to unlearn Learn to be able to learn. And so just recognizing those things about yourself having that level of self awareness, it just designed thinking just really becomes a practice that influences you personally and professionally. That allows you to develop both skill set and mindset.
Dan Kreiness
Here’s what’s cool about some of the stuff you were just saying to is, as you were speaking, I was hearing all these words and ideas that are thematic throughout my dissertation so far too, and what I’m looking to research because I’m looking to Well, I can’t say make the link, but I’m looking to help understand the link between transformational leadership practices and growth mindset in in classroom teachers around innovative instructional practices, more student centered learning. And so I love what you said about you know, maybe sometimes that means on learning things too, because I’m thinking that, you know, if I’m interviewing school leaders, and there’s Tell me, these people were really set in their ways, but then I got them to think about something differently. And, you know, maybe that’ll come up to I don’t know yet, but what has the doctoral experience been like for you and what does it meant to you? You know, I think both of us are relatively close in terms of where we’re at in our programs. There’s like a light at the end of the tunnel Finally, and and once we get over this next hurdle of actually doing the research, then I guess we’re in the homestretch.
Sabba Quidwai
Absolutely. Oh my god. So stop me if I go on for too long, because I honestly can’t talk enough about how much I am enjoying my experience. So it took, it has taken me it took me a long time to find a program that really resonated with me. What I love about this particular program is I feel like they actually took a design thinking approach to reimagining the doctoral experience. And so there’s a couple things that I really like about it. Number one, I feel like it was when I was thinking about am I going to make this investment is it going to be worth it, I was really looking for a program that maybe wasn’t so valuable today, but 510 years from now would be even more valuable. And I feel like the global lens that it adds and taking us to visit countries like Finland, like Brazil, Hong Kong, Qatar, and going to these places, and really learning about the dynamics in education worldwide, is given me such a unique lens into the challenges and just the conversations that is that we have in education. That’s number one. Number two, it’s really opened my eyes into the idea that we don’t really do enough to work with students. We spend a lot of time focusing on other areas and other professionals and trying to, you know, get innovation to happen in different spaces. But I think one of the things I’ve really learned is my teachers are fantastic for knowledge, for wisdom for advice and for guidance. But my teachers are not going to be there to tell me, Hey, you should really think about turning your research paper or your dissertation into a podcast. Or you should really think about turning it into a series of video posts or anything along those lines. And it may be that at some point, they get there. But I’m in the program now. Right? And I need somebody to do this with me now. And so I think it’s really important as a student to look at what is the value of your professors? But what is it that you need to be doing? Because you have a future that in a world that’s rapidly changing? How Who is your audience? Who do you want to speak to in doing the work that you’re doing? And how you going to go about creating the content that you need within the environment that you’re in? And so it’s just interesting to hear so many people talk about like, you know, is college worth it? You know, should I go there? And I think, you know, it’s the wrong question to be asking. I think there’s so much value to be learned from individuals at unit like these professors are amazing. And just the conversations is the idea that I can go walk into your office and have a conference. With your email with you are all of these kinds of things, I think is absolutely phenomenal. But at the same time, I think there’s things that I need to do independently to be able to advance my work and the way that I want to. And so I think having that ownership and having that passion for the work you’re doing is what’s going to lead a student down that pathway. If you’re not engaged in your work, if you’re not excited about what you’re learning and what you’re creating, and the even the traditional assignments that you’re being asked to do, if you don’t see the value, and you don’t enjoy that, I don’t know that you would get to that next level. And so that’s been a really, really big takeaway for me.
Dan Kreiness
Yeah. And, again, I’ve seen all the pictures and videos, the pictures from Greece, I think you were in Greece earlier this summer. were amazing. Where are you off to next? Is there more? Are there more places to go before you finish up?
Sabba Quidwai
Yeah, there are so Greece wasn’t actually part of a school trip. Greece was a personal trip, but I like wow. Because one of the messages I hope to get across with my social platform This idea that you can design your own life, you know, really, what is it that you want to do? What gets you excited? What are the things? Where are the places you want to go? Who are the people you want to meet? And how do you use social media to reverse engineer that process? And so one of the reasons I share multiple things on there so that people know that like, you know, you can create whatever life it is that you want, you can design what you want. And then it’s also fun to be creative, right? Like photography. It’s fun making I love making videos, I have an obsession with videos. And so I love being able to go travel places and create stories. It’s one of my favorite things to do. And so yeah, so um, you know, Greece was a personal trip, but for school, we have Finland coming up in October, and then we’re also actually going to be visiting Estonia, which I did not know but surpassed Finland last year in test scores. Wow. I was gonna say to like I’ve heard so much about the Finnish education system, everybody brags about it and raves about How amazing is so that that’s really interesting. I know it’s going to be so nice. And I’m so excited. This is why stories are so amazing, you know, because when you have those social platforms, the idea that I can bring so many people along with me and I can engage in discussions about the things that I’m seeing with people who aren’t physically present is, I mean, it’s just so transformational for your own thinking, let alone helping others.
